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wpm 15 hours ago [-]
> It is our only way forward.
Is it? Because I feel like I've been seeing this "turn our backs" attitude for at least 10 years, and by the article's own admission, it doesn't seem to have affected any of the "bad" people mentioned in the article in anyway.
Perhaps a change of tack is in order.
16 hours ago [-]
phplovesong 12 hours ago [-]
Also the content creators like "theprimeagen" pushes his stuff kind of hard, also had him on his podcast. Combine lex as a guest, and you see full picture. Either REALLY naive or just ignorant.
stego-tech 9 hours ago [-]
Most of the names on that list are kinda expected and obvious for any of us who spent any amount of time seriously engaging online outside of social media spaces. I mean, Cloudflare defended literal White Supremacists a la The Daily Stormer, and DHH is a person of immense notoriety for their bigoted views.
What’s disappointing is two-fold: HN greens and miscreants leaping to defend overtly fascist viewpoints as valid (faithfully ignoring the Paradox of Tolerance), and seeing 1Password on that list. Most of that garbage I can avoid to some degree, but 1Password is still the industry leader for enterprise password management by a wide margin, particularly in terms of UX. It’s making me side-eye Proton Vault for a migration for my own credentials, even if it means losing such conveniences as SSH/CLI access.
I’m also going to echo the sentiment of the cooler heads (and the OP) here, in that these people and entities aren’t David fighting Goliath. These are wealthy and powerful people either openly espousing violent ideologies or supporters of said proposals in monetary and/or infrastructure terms. They aren’t the deplatformed, they’re the deplatformers; they aren’t the debanked, they’re the debankers.
I don’t know which of you is part of the lucky 10,000 today, but more people need to internalize that life is inherently political due to its complexity. This rhetoric isn’t empty or hollow, it has meaningful impact and direct harm when left unchallenged. Similarly, the workplace isn’t some mythical apolitical environment, but a melting pot of policy and positions that form better or worse outcomes depending on what levers are pulled. Folks who exist on the “fringe” have no choice but to exist as open political entities until and unless the “fringe” is normalized, at which point we become background signal like everyone else (hence the backlash to “woke” and “DEI” by those whose power is derived from oppression and unalienable attributes like race or sex).
There is a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old fascist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included. We need more folks to recognize that their actions and their words are the same thing, and they intend to harm anyone and everyone they can to ensure they never, ever have to grow as individuals.
3 hours ago [-]
throwawaypath 2 hours ago [-]
>Most of the names on that list are kinda expected and obvious for any of us who spent any amount of time seriously engaging online outside of social media spaces.
Those names are "kinda expected and obvious" for only the terminally online.
>Cloudflare defended literal White Supremacists a la The Daily Stormer
Never happened.
>and DHH is a person of immense notoriety for their bigoted views.
Only for the terminally online leftist.
>What’s disappointing is two-fold: HN greens and miscreants leaping to defend overtly fascist viewpoints as valid (faithfully ignoring the Paradox of Tolerance)
Heterodox opinions and anything right of Stalin != "overtly fascist viewpoints"
>They aren’t the deplatformed, they’re the deplatformers; they aren’t the debanked, they’re the debankers.
Always projection and admission. "When we do it, it's (D)ifferent!"
>I don’t know which of you is part of the lucky 10,000 today, but more people need to internalize that life is inherently political due to its complexity. This rhetoric isn’t empty or hollow, it has meaningful impact and direct harm when left unchallenged.
That's what many said about DEI/far-leftism. Anyone not fully aligned were called every -ist and name you could think of.
>Folks who exist on the “fringe” have no choice but to exist as open political entities until and unless the “fringe” is normalized
Everyone is a political entity.
>hence the backlash to “woke” and “DEI” by those whose power is derived from oppression and unalienable attributes like race or sex
It's backlash against boldfaced racism. DEI/wokeism is a racist, sexist, hateful ideology. That's why there's backlash.
>There is a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old fascist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included.
There was a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old communist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included.
EdiX 14 hours ago [-]
This is a very dishonest post but it doesn't matter "there is no room for debate or argument, here" this is not a post aiming to convince anyone who might disagree, it's about rallying the troops.
brennanbrown 13 hours ago [-]
what's dishonest?
EdiX 13 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
unconed 15 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
brennanbrown 15 hours ago [-]
I'll quote a previous article I wrote, as it seems relevant here.
A lot has changed over the past decade, and corporate social media now blatantly allows awful, harmful takes in a way that you could only get away with on truth.social or Gab or whatever the fuck years ago. You do not need a tiny, independent platform to say whatever you want, now. A vaccine skeptic is the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services. You are no longer anti-authority when the authority agrees with you. You are no longer the little guy fighting in counterculture against the big man in power. You're all on the same team, now.
On January 7th, 2025, Mark Zuckerberg posted a five-minute video called "More Speech and Fewer Mistakes." In it, Meta ended its third-party fact-checking program in the US, replacing it with X-style Community Notes, and framed the whole shift as a return to free expression after what Zuckerberg called a "cultural tipping point" brought on by the 2024 election. In the same breath, Meta rewrote its Hateful Conduct policy to expressly permit describing LGBTQ+ people as "mentally ill" or "abnormal" and calling for their exclusion from professions and public life, loosened its rules around immigration status, and swapped proactive enforcement for waiting on user reports. Days later, the company donated a million dollars to the incoming president's inauguration, added a Trump ally to its board, and handed its global policy shop to a Republican former Bush staffer.
The Center for Countering Digital Hate spent six months on either side of the change combing through eight million Facebook comments aimed at elected officials, and found abusive comments tripled, from 24,000 to 78,000, with violent threats and hate quadrupling and harassment doubling. The ADL tracked the Facebook pages of Jewish members of Congress and found toxic comments jumped more than thirteenfold after February 4, 2025. GLAAD, UltraViolet, and All Out surveyed over 7,000 people across 86 countries and found 92 percent worried about the rise in harmful content, and 77 percent now feeling less safe simply existing openly on Meta's platforms. Even Meta's own first integrity report after the change admitted that violent and graphic content, plus bullying and harassment, both ticked upward.
This all sounds acceptable to me in the interests of free speech.
ompogUe 10 hours ago [-]
I guess if you want to live in a hateful society, you'd accept it in the interests of hateful free speech. Kind of a race to the bottom, though.
However, if you look, for example, at the history of constitutional amendments over the centuries, turns out they've consistently been to provide more inclusivity/less hate. And that's arguably what made america great.
Seems the maga crowd wants to make America great at being stupid, mean and weak, instead of that inspirational light on the hill.
eudamoniac 4 hours ago [-]
Yeah when you just pretend everything you don't like is "hate" then your own position is bound to end up sounding pretty reasonable.
bragh 13 hours ago [-]
Complaining about blowback when for the past 15+ years the mainstream cultural narrative has been #killallmen, "COVID-19 vaccines came too early, not enough men died", "religious people should be sent to labour camps" and so on is for sure something.
ompogUe 10 hours ago [-]
Not sure where this was ever a mainstream narrative.
I guess if by mainstream culture you mean some sort of thin-skinned incel echo chamber. Which, yes, those "men" are pretty weak and pitiful, but I've never seen and calls to kill any of them.
bragh 9 hours ago [-]
Sure. And there were never any restrictions during COVID either, right?
andy-p 13 hours ago [-]
“mainstream cultural narrative” … I’m not sure where in the world this would be true but do please cite sources to back this claim up if you want to sound in any way credible.
bragh 12 hours ago [-]
Not sure if honest mistake, but this is what was going on in Twitter and Tumblr for a long while. Obviously in recent years people are trying to walk back on it because of the backlash.
andy-p 12 hours ago [-]
I would suggest not interpreting (your) algorithmic driven social media feeds as the “mainstream cultural mainstream”. As an older white male, at no point in the last 10 years have I felt exposed or subjected to the extreme views you’ve enumerated.
bragh 12 hours ago [-]
Social media is upstream from beliefs and actions that happen in real life. Not even by mid-2000's, early days of 4chan, could people claim that Internet and real life are separate. The same people who write those kind of things on Twitter and Tumblr and now Bluesky, are the same ones who work at schools and universities, run NGOs, advise local municipality and government policy, and so on. So "you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you", but with social media roots of politics.
Also, what's up with misquoting me? I never used the phrase "mainstream cultural mainstream".
andy-p 11 hours ago [-]
Simple typo. Internet and real life are very different once you remove algorithmic driven social media feeds.
bimhuis 16 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
MaxwellJensen 16 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
beardyw 15 hours ago [-]
Since fascists are political extremists that seems a bit circular.
Is it? Because I feel like I've been seeing this "turn our backs" attitude for at least 10 years, and by the article's own admission, it doesn't seem to have affected any of the "bad" people mentioned in the article in anyway.
Perhaps a change of tack is in order.
What’s disappointing is two-fold: HN greens and miscreants leaping to defend overtly fascist viewpoints as valid (faithfully ignoring the Paradox of Tolerance), and seeing 1Password on that list. Most of that garbage I can avoid to some degree, but 1Password is still the industry leader for enterprise password management by a wide margin, particularly in terms of UX. It’s making me side-eye Proton Vault for a migration for my own credentials, even if it means losing such conveniences as SSH/CLI access.
I’m also going to echo the sentiment of the cooler heads (and the OP) here, in that these people and entities aren’t David fighting Goliath. These are wealthy and powerful people either openly espousing violent ideologies or supporters of said proposals in monetary and/or infrastructure terms. They aren’t the deplatformed, they’re the deplatformers; they aren’t the debanked, they’re the debankers.
I don’t know which of you is part of the lucky 10,000 today, but more people need to internalize that life is inherently political due to its complexity. This rhetoric isn’t empty or hollow, it has meaningful impact and direct harm when left unchallenged. Similarly, the workplace isn’t some mythical apolitical environment, but a melting pot of policy and positions that form better or worse outcomes depending on what levers are pulled. Folks who exist on the “fringe” have no choice but to exist as open political entities until and unless the “fringe” is normalized, at which point we become background signal like everyone else (hence the backlash to “woke” and “DEI” by those whose power is derived from oppression and unalienable attributes like race or sex).
There is a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old fascist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included. We need more folks to recognize that their actions and their words are the same thing, and they intend to harm anyone and everyone they can to ensure they never, ever have to grow as individuals.
Those names are "kinda expected and obvious" for only the terminally online.
>Cloudflare defended literal White Supremacists a la The Daily Stormer
Never happened.
>and DHH is a person of immense notoriety for their bigoted views.
Only for the terminally online leftist.
>What’s disappointing is two-fold: HN greens and miscreants leaping to defend overtly fascist viewpoints as valid (faithfully ignoring the Paradox of Tolerance)
Heterodox opinions and anything right of Stalin != "overtly fascist viewpoints"
>They aren’t the deplatformed, they’re the deplatformers; they aren’t the debanked, they’re the debankers.
Always projection and admission. "When we do it, it's (D)ifferent!"
>I don’t know which of you is part of the lucky 10,000 today, but more people need to internalize that life is inherently political due to its complexity. This rhetoric isn’t empty or hollow, it has meaningful impact and direct harm when left unchallenged.
That's what many said about DEI/far-leftism. Anyone not fully aligned were called every -ist and name you could think of.
>Folks who exist on the “fringe” have no choice but to exist as open political entities until and unless the “fringe” is normalized
Everyone is a political entity.
>hence the backlash to “woke” and “DEI” by those whose power is derived from oppression and unalienable attributes like race or sex
It's backlash against boldfaced racism. DEI/wokeism is a racist, sexist, hateful ideology. That's why there's backlash.
>There is a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old fascist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included.
There was a very real problem of wealthy and powerful people leaning heavily on old communist tropes to promote their own agendas at the expense of everyone else, their supporters included.
A lot has changed over the past decade, and corporate social media now blatantly allows awful, harmful takes in a way that you could only get away with on truth.social or Gab or whatever the fuck years ago. You do not need a tiny, independent platform to say whatever you want, now. A vaccine skeptic is the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services. You are no longer anti-authority when the authority agrees with you. You are no longer the little guy fighting in counterculture against the big man in power. You're all on the same team, now.
On January 7th, 2025, Mark Zuckerberg posted a five-minute video called "More Speech and Fewer Mistakes." In it, Meta ended its third-party fact-checking program in the US, replacing it with X-style Community Notes, and framed the whole shift as a return to free expression after what Zuckerberg called a "cultural tipping point" brought on by the 2024 election. In the same breath, Meta rewrote its Hateful Conduct policy to expressly permit describing LGBTQ+ people as "mentally ill" or "abnormal" and calling for their exclusion from professions and public life, loosened its rules around immigration status, and swapped proactive enforcement for waiting on user reports. Days later, the company donated a million dollars to the incoming president's inauguration, added a Trump ally to its board, and handed its global policy shop to a Republican former Bush staffer.
The Center for Countering Digital Hate spent six months on either side of the change combing through eight million Facebook comments aimed at elected officials, and found abusive comments tripled, from 24,000 to 78,000, with violent threats and hate quadrupling and harassment doubling. The ADL tracked the Facebook pages of Jewish members of Congress and found toxic comments jumped more than thirteenfold after February 4, 2025. GLAAD, UltraViolet, and All Out surveyed over 7,000 people across 86 countries and found 92 percent worried about the rise in harmful content, and 77 percent now feeling less safe simply existing openly on Meta's platforms. Even Meta's own first integrity report after the change admitted that violent and graphic content, plus bullying and harassment, both ticked upward.
https://brennan.day/free-speech-and-the-indieweb/
However, if you look, for example, at the history of constitutional amendments over the centuries, turns out they've consistently been to provide more inclusivity/less hate. And that's arguably what made america great.
Seems the maga crowd wants to make America great at being stupid, mean and weak, instead of that inspirational light on the hill.
I guess if by mainstream culture you mean some sort of thin-skinned incel echo chamber. Which, yes, those "men" are pretty weak and pitiful, but I've never seen and calls to kill any of them.
Also, what's up with misquoting me? I never used the phrase "mainstream cultural mainstream".